Thai Gem?

[J. Perry]

Who is this Thai Gem I see all over the place? It looks like they sell consumers and jewelers? I see them on e-bay all the time.

Who would buy a colored stone from a stranger in another country with all the enhancements on the market today?

It boggles my mind what some folks will cost themselves to save a few dollars. I have been buying color for 15 years and still make mistakes from time to time.


JP (shopping for a cheap heart surgeon in Mexico) :)

[denverappraiser]

Who is this Thai Gem I see all over the place? It looks like they sell consumers and jewelers? I see them on e-bay all the time.

That's a big mail order house operating out of Thailand. They are one of the big time success stories on ebay. They continually list stones for sale and have their own site where they have many many more. Ebay isn't their only advertising. As you point out, they put their ads all over the place. It's a pretty successful business model and they have spawned dozens of competitors.

Who would buy a colored stone from a stranger in another country with all the enhancements on the market today?

It boggles my mind what some folks will cost themselves to save a few dollars. I have been buying color for 15 years and still make mistakes from time to time.

Beats me. Apparently a lot of people. There is a popular misconception that US dealers are a ripoff because they have a US address and that overseas dealers somehow are better deals because they are 'closer' to the source. This idea doesn't hold up to even a cursory inspection but it's quite widespread. Thaigems is a decent enough store but their level of marketing success is really remarkable.

[Gregory Diamond]

Also, when you buy overseas you forfeit your protection by US agencies like the FTC. (Federal Trade Commission)


Greg

[Diamonds]

Here is a link to a site which is an interesting read on the thai gem scam that has been going on for decades. They prey on peoples greed. It's not Thaigem.com but you get a bit of an idea where it sprang from....

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Scams/Sapphire.shtml

[CzeshireCat]

I was a regular customer of Thaigem.com for over a year, starting via ebay then moved on to their own pricedrop auction site. I only stopped buying from them because, in their managements wisdom, they decided to ban U.K customers from their site.

If I hadn't started buying gemstones from them, I never would have started. They brought the price within the modest reach of plebby people like myself.
I have approx 60 different stones in my little collection ranging from teeny little rubies I bought at the start to a lovely stonking 23ct pink kunzite.
Quality was unpredictable, sometimes you'd get loupe clean stones and at other times heavily occluded. So I wouldn't recommend them unless you're collecting for a hobby like myself.
If I were looking for serious precious stones then I would be more likely to visit my jeweller.

They were very professional in their customer services, good paperwork, fast delivery.
I've a feeling that all is not well in their business nowadays. The amount of stock appeared to diminish, their range is much smaller too.

An interesting story (to me anyway)
Dec 11th 2004 I was present when a bug in their site software was allowing people to wipe them clean out of their high priced stones. This happened only over a few hours on a single saturday evening uk time.
A pricedrop would start at eg $1000 with a reserve of $500. You could bid as the price dropped over a 2 min period down to the reserve.
If someone prebid on the auction, and no one won the auction, then the prebidder won at their chosen price. Their buggy software was allowing people to prebid at figures below the reserve eg $2
I watched, amazed, as I saw masses of high value stones drop down to the high reserve prices, then instantly go for 2 dollars to the prebidder.
I "won" several myself as a test. I cancelled all except a $375 kunzite (reserve $150) I prebid $35 for (before I knew I could go as low as $2 lol). I sent customer support an email telling them about what was happening that night, pointed out to them that the stone on my account had been obtained in the same method and that I claimed it as a reward but told them to cancel it if they wanted to.
Their response was 2 days later as follows.

"Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your Feedback.

We did not get any complains like this before. I have forward your comments to the concern department to observe on this matter."

I bet they didn't get any complaints!!!

[GGJoe]

RE: Prebid $35/Kunzite

I'll give ya $39 :p

RE: Unpredictable clarity & other quality factors

Yeah I've purchased a couple of colored stones from Thaigem. Unpredictability is right. The ol' Economics theory holds very true. High risk equals (or should equal) low price. As far as Ebay goes. Same holds true for anyone really. There is virtual reality and many times it has nothing to do with reality. I wasn't upset over my nickle-be dollar-be purchases from Thaigem, because there wasn't any real loss. In retrospect, it was a lot like gambling for the tourist, who doesn't go to casinos much and only put a few quarters in a slot machine. No real loss financially, and real fun if they might win!!! Don't count on it though.

But here's the kicker as far as separating virtual reality from reality. Since Thaigem's completed auctions are available to me to look up, why should I value your purchase any higher than your purchase? My father-in-law saw a three stone diamond ring at Costco a few weeks ago. Big ol' diamond in the center 5+ carats with a 2 carat trillion diamond on each side.... Costco price $55,000. He was saying in a store it'd be way over that for anyone else. I asked him why he was any different than anyone else who walks into Costco. He said I didn't get his point. I said I did get his point completely, but it was a hypothetical one. I just said I see the fact the price is $55,000.

How this ties into Thaigem (pun intended)? Well, in my opinion, these type vendors are a huge reason why so many decent, ethical, sincere jewelers and wholesalers are being forced out of business. Granted there's nothing I can do about it. But I see this type selling very harmful to the jewelry business as a whole. It's driving the pricepoints down, it's confusing the public what is actually gem quality vs. what they ship as gem quality, and therefore; it is raising suspicions for those who don't misrepresent. Is this type business worth the low price? Obviously so ,because even though Thaigem has thousands of complaints on ebay, their overall rating is still well above 90%!!!! Again, it's one thing to look at numbers, its another to put them in perspective. With all this information out there on the world wide web to help aid the consumer to make more educated decisions about purchases, the crap I received from Thaigem was just that. However, I didn't leave negative feedback because I wasn't ripped off. But again, if I bring in a 1 carat strongly greenish blue (declasse clarity) corundum, telling you it is blue sapphire because that's what the description said online to your jewelry store to sell you? Should I expect you to pay me $250/ct for it? If so I'll print up some deeds to some swamp land I've heard is for sale.

Great discussion here. Hopefully I've communicated my view on it accurately. You see. I'm a big fan of profit. Mine and yours. My old boss put it nicely, "Profit is not a bad word." Today in my business. I promptly fire a customer who seems to think it is. Nothing personal when it comes to sending them off. But the clients who have stuck with me for years know I'm fair and shave the sheep instead of skin them. ;)


GGJoe

[CzeshireCat]

I catch your drift.
If one bought enough stones on Thaigem, I think one would start learning the difference between good and bad pretty quickly.
Unfortunately the good ones (to me as a layperson) came as a low percentage. That didn't stop me though because I was trying to buy a variety. They all give me pleasure, except for the chipped sapphire/corundum ;) the sods sent me once (oh and that yellow (brown) "star" sapphire that doesn't twinkle in any light).
Sadly, stones on their own are rarely openly displayed in jewellers shops. I visited a geological store today and was delighted to see a cabinet full of small gem boxes with a nice display of various coloured stones (I won a good kunzite on thaigem at least, I do love kunzites)
I doubt if it's a bad thing for the trade. I would never in my life have thought I could afford to "throw money away" on such fripperies as loose gem stones. Personally I feel I know a lot more than I used to and I look through a jewellers window with more confidence of what I'm looking at. I've seen what carp ebay can throw out so I'd never be tempted to place serious dosh for a diamond in any ebay seller's grubby paws.
I think the bigger threat to jewellers is the low price of gold on ebay, whether new or old. My sister who is a Bingo Lady for her gold, used to advise me (who only owned 1 pair of gold earrings and the requisite set for being married) that a price of £10 per gram wasn't to be sniffed at. On ebay most regulars purchase at a scrap price of £2.50 per g, maybe going higher for fancier chains.
I admit I've overtaken her since I discovered ebay. She, however, has moved up to platinum (imho expensive white stuff that looks like silver ;) ) The price of ebay gold has affected my view of gold purchased from jewellers.

[ACE]

Well Lets just say that if a company is trying to sell Stones to the public -and That stone is a hit or miss on consistency and quality ,why in the world would you continue to buy from them - I mean You can Buy a $2 Ruby Virtually anywhere -How can you put your trust in a company like that :confused: - Lets face it most consumers dont know jack diddley about stone value - Yes they may Know what they want but value No way -i takes many years of experience and handling 10 of thousnds of stones to really have a true idea of stone value ---
My Point
GO WITH SOMEONE YOU CAN TRUST AND WHO WILL STAND BEHIND THERE PURCHASE ! :cool:

I

[panachegems]

If my memmory serves me Thai-Gem was started by an American named Don Kogen. Many years ago I used to get a one and, sometimes two page typed list of gemstones he had available, in the mail when I had my Trade Shop. Further correspondence with him revealed that he lived in Thailand and I believe he married a Thai Resident. His Wife's parents, or something along those lines was in the Gem Business and that's how he started.
I may have some of those old flyers around. From what I have observed most of his items are commercial grade and sold to the masses.
Please correct me if I am incorrect as I said it was quite a while ago.
AC:)

[oldminer]

I have never seen a good stone someone bought from Thaigem. but I have seen many people who liked what they had purchased there. People enjoy the hunt. They have a little fun waiting in suspense for their blind purchase to magically arrive. I suppose a little mystery can add to someone's pleasure.

It wouldn't be a place for highly sophisticated purchasers, but it isn't totally negative. Look at the millions of bucks people toss into slot machines in gambling rooms all over the place. Most enjoy the suspense while waiting for the 3 cherries to pop up. Look around. Those beautiful casinos were built on money people lost playing there. If I go to a pay phone and throw in 25 cents and don't get a dial tone, I don't generally consider tossing in severl additional quarters hoping to get connected or to get all my money back. Its all attitude and expectations.

Places that have squeezed the enjoyment of shopping and the profit motivation from selling make it more affordable for more people to have certain commodities, but it is at the expense of some very pleasurable experiences one rarely gets in today's world. High level service, a helpful staff, a selection to choose from in person, are giving way to very impersonal shopping with little human contact. Sometimes I even prefer this way of shopping, but a balanced approach is the best. :p

[saffles]

I knew the Thaigem.com people (it has been 2 years since my last visit) and can tell you they had some amazingly good stones, some mediocre ones, and some not so good. Don Kogen (owner/founder) was a very open fellow when I first met him 4 years ago. I would be at his office on Chanthaburi, Thailand and we would look at stones and he would show me things to look for. I would buy some stones form him on occasion and he would have his staff bring me 1000's of stones to browse through, not minding i use a 20x glass!

I always thought they were honest and upfront, but they had a big change in management and direction and I have not keep up with their situation.

I do know that he tried passing savings on to his purchaser, whether it was a consumer of a jeweler. He would by direct from the heaters/processors and mark it up a small percentage. Usually colored stones are "stepped on" about 5 times before getting to the jewelry stores in the West. I had bought stones before in Thailand, took them to the States, doubled the price and was told by jewelers I was still cheap.