Setting a Diamond bought elsewhere

[Kelly]

What if the customer walks in with a loose diamond and a semi mount bought online and wants the diamond set?

[Feydakin]

No problem.. In some cases, no setting in others.. Each store will be unique in how they handle this issue..

Then once you find someone that will do it, you have to find out who is going to be responsible for the stone should it break.. And then this issue leads to how much the setting labor will cost.. And again, every store will be different..

The real issue comes down to, is it reasonable to expect a jeweler making $60 to set a stone to take responsibility for a $1k on up stone for that $60.. Or should he charge more for setting stones he didn't sell??

[Kelly]

I thought thats why the jeweler has insurance. If they break it the insurance will pay for it.....

[Princess]

How much does it cost to set a diamond?

[Bearman]

I thought thats why the jeweler has insurance. If they break it the insurance will pay for it.....

I didn't think insurance companies insured jewelers for breaking stones.
Let me now if I am wrong and which company does it.

[Princess]

I was under the understanding that if you brought a diamond into a jeweler and it shattered they would pay you the cost of your diamond or replace it.

[Kelly]

What happens if someone brings a diamond in to be set and it breaks? Who is responsible?

[Brian Knox]

The important lesson here is to clarify who is responsible for what in this scenario, before you have a problem.

Jewelers are not covered by insurance for this, they are essentialy 'self insuring' their risk.

Most jewelers will not worry about setting a round brilliant cut diamond that has no durability concerns (cracks,fractures or problems on the edge of diamond)

However, fancy cuts, especially shapes with corners and points are quite susceptible to damage while setting, and many jewelers will decline this work unless it is their stone and maybe their setting as well.

Also, there are setting styles that present more risk, such as bezel setting, flush settings, etc.

Jewelers are not being vindictive or rude when they refuse to set diamonds bought elsewhere, they are more likely opting out of a deal that does not make good business sense.

A jeweler looking at a small potential profit risks whatever a customer paid for a diamond, which nowdays is easily $10,000 to $20,000.

Many jewelers if they do take these risky jobs will have the customer sign a waiver of responsibility.

Jewelers that do not have a customer 'sign off' on this type of work may put themselves at risk under implied warranty laws.

I have always advised consumers to have the same jeweler supply the diamond, mounting and setting labor if possible.

Read some of the diamond boards, they are littered with quality issues regarding how a diamond is set or the quality of a ring.


When there are quality issues and the components have been purchased from different vendors, there is often finger pointing about which vendor is to blame.

Having the same jeweler supply everything serves the consumers best interests, because it keeps the chain of responsibility very clear.

[JLPJ]

If you had brought it to me, you would have signed an iron-clad waiver that you are accepting all risks involved in setting your stone, and that no warranty expressed or implied is given concerning the work done.

I'll never accept the warranty responsibility on a diamond and/or a mounting that I didn't sell--it's foolish to do so, as well as bad business practice.

[Bearman]

I was under the understanding that if you brought a diamond into a jeweler and it shattered they would pay you the cost of your diamond or replace it.


The jeweler themselves would be responsible, not their insurance company.

[Feydakin]

As far as I know, the only insurance company willing to write a policy for stone setting is Lloyds.. And the price was astronomical..

The issue is one of risk vs profit, just like any business decision..

Say I charge $60 to set your diamond.. After labor and costs etc. I might make $20 "profit" on the deal.. You come in with your $20,000 princess and I break a corner off of it.. So I buy you a replacement diamond and keep your broken one to have recut.. I buy good, the recut is done well, and now I'm only in the hole $5,0000 for setting your diamonds and "making" $20.. I'm going to have to set 250 more stones just to break even for the one I broke.. Not to mention to drama of having to tell you that I broke your diamond.. If the stone cleaves in half leaving me with junk, I could be working the rest of the year for free just to break even again.. To many jewelers it's simply not worth the risk..

Roll back the time to say 5 or 10 years ago when %60 to 100% markups were common.. I break a stone I sold to you.. No big deal.. I get you another one and replace it.. Sure, I don't make any money on the deal, but I also don't go in the hole trying to make the situation "right".. It's far easier to take responsibility at 60% markup than it is at 10% markup, or even no sale at all..

I've said this before, but I expect to see a major shift in the way jewelers charge for stone setting.. For stuff sold in house it will remain the same, but we will see outside settings start to cost significantly more.. $300 to $500 just to set a stone.. Or even a percentage of the value of the stone so that the jeweler may 'self insure' against the occasional breakage.. This is one of the areas that the internet may have actually sone some harm to everyone involved in the name of "cheap"..

Steve

[faceup]

If you had brought it to me, you would have signed an iron-clad waiver that you are accepting all risks involved in setting your stone, and that no warranty expressed or implied is given concerning the work done.

I'll never accept the warranty responsibility on a diamond and/or a mounting that I didn't sell--it's foolish to do so, as well as bad business practice.


This is pretty much how we look at it... However, jewelers have to be smart aside from trying to service customers. If a consumer brings in a poorly cut, nasty, heavily included diamond, we say, "no".
If there are no serious issues with the stone, we'll do it. Of course, there are no special considerations for, "I need it right now." It takes what it takes to get to it just like all the rings that need to be sized and chains that need to be fixed.
We charge $100.00 for this service.

Rob

[Jan]

I believe Federated insures for this now. We just spoke with them last week. They cover up to $10,000.

[Princess]

I've seen jewelers that will set your diamond for free if you buy itand the setting from them. Why now would they want $500.00 to do it? Is it just sour grapes that they didn't make the sale and now want to punish the customer or does it really cost a jeweler that much to set a diamond?

[Gregory Diamond]

I think that it's more avoiding $3000 liability for a $100 setting job. Try explaining to the customer that that big ol chip in their 1.50 princess Cut was because they bought an inferior diamond on the internet.

On the other hand it is a hot poker in the eye for many retailers to set diamonds they know they could have given the customer a better deal on.

Greg

[Brian Knox]

Princess,

When I turn down setting work , it is never sour grapes, it is a business decision to not open my self up to a high risk, high dollar figure of liability for a $50-$100 dollar transaction.

Whenever we (jewelers) set a fancy cut diamond, we sweat it out because of the inherent risks in setting diamonds.

As far as setting diamonds purchased elsewhere, It is a cost/benefit analysis.

As I said before, most round diamonds are not a concern.

However, princess cuts are an accident looking for a place to happen.

Many consumers are not aware of this.

Jewelers, guess what ?

Your'e liability does not end after you have safely set a customers diamond.

I heard of a jeweler that was being sued by an Insurance Company, The owner of the diamond ring broke a princess cut diamond that was set by this jeweler .

The insurance company paid the claim to the diamond ring owner and then went after the jeweler.

Who is going to come out ahead in this type of scenario, the jeweler's or the insurance companies with their banks of lawyers?

[Bearman]

Princess,

When I turn down setting work , it is never sour grapes, it is a business decision to not open my self up to a high risk, high dollar figure of liability for a $50-$100 dollar transaction.

Whenever we (jewelers) set a fancy cut diamond, we sweat it out because of the inherent risks in setting diamonds.

As far as setting diamonds purchased elsewhere, It is a cost/benefit analysis.

As I said before, most round diamonds are not a concern.

However, princess cuts are an accident looking for a place to happen.

Many consumers are not aware of this.

Jewelers, guess what ?

Your'e liability does not end after you have safely set a customers diamond.

I heard of a jeweler that was being sued by an Insurance Company, The owner of the diamond ring broke a princess cut diamond that was set by this jeweler .

The insurance company paid the claim to the diamond ring owner and then went after the jeweler.

Who is going to come out ahead in this type of scenario, the jeweler's or the insurance companies with their banks of lawyers?

I agree with Brian.
Once you touch someone's ring, you have adopted it.
If someone wants a ring sized but it also needs tips and the customer doesn't want to spend the extra money to have the ring retipped, we won't do the sizing. We are protecting ourselves but also trying to do what is right for the customer.

[Feydakin]

I've seen jewelers that will set your diamond for free if you buy itand the setting from them. Why now would they want $500.00 to do it? Is it just sour grapes that they didn't make the sale and now want to punish the customer or does it really cost a jeweler that much to set a diamond?

Princess,

Did you even read the math that I explained in my post?? It's all about being able to "afford" breaking stones.. In many places stone breakage is a rare thing.. But I know of others where it's a daily occourance..

The diamond you "buy" from the jeweler is not set for free.. The cost of setting that diamond is built into the price.. This goes for every single industry that gives things away for "free".. That cost is recoverd somewhere, somehow.. Otherwise those comapnies will go out of business..

We had a woman come in right before Christmas last year.. The store down the street was having a diamond sale.. She bought a decent diamond there for a pretty good price.. She then went down the road even further and picked up a mounting at yet another local store (it was in their closeout case) and then came to us to set it up because she didn't trust either of them to do it "right"..

On one side of this we get a great feeling because it means that she knows and understands how we run our shop.. But, she told us we had to do it while she was at lunch, giving us about 45 minutes to set it up, and that she was only going to pay $30 because that's what the store she bought the mounting at was going to charge her.. She failed to mention that it was going to take them 3 days..

Where is the incentive for us to do this for this woman?? What can we get out of this situation other than a lot of risk for no money??

BTW, who wants to guess at how this situation was resolved??

[Jan]

I don't understand why customers come into jewelry stores expecting them to do what is on someone else's menu.

You surely wouldn't go into an OutBack Steak House and tell them how you just love Red Lobsters shrimp dinner and you want them to make you one just like it. It's not on their menu. If you want the shrimp dinner you go to where they make it at Red Lobster.


Same goes for stone setting while you wait etc. If they do it at the other store then that is the place you should be, not asking the place that does quality work to do the kind of job the other place does and then dictating what you will pay as well. ??
I have to laugh, I saw someone saying the other day that they know it only takes 20 minutes to set a diamond, so they should be able to stay and watch.
We might take 4 hours or more usually setting a stone here, making sure the seat is level ,and all the prongs are well rounded and down on the stone, and the ring is well finished. It`s not like an oil change :) Plus my setter also has to get up and wait on clients if we get busy. They could possibly be waiting all day....

[Brian Knox]

... Plus my setter also has to get up and wait on clients if we get busy. They could possibly be waiting all day....


Hi Jan,

From my experience, its best to keep the benchies :D in back so they don't go ballistic when they hear things like "Can you set my diamond in 15 minutes while I watch, for $30.00?"

:-)

[denverappraiser]

We?ve got a store in town that charges 3% of the appraised value of the stone for setting with a minimum that varies depending on the shape, size and style of setting. They won?t set an outside stone unless the client has a credible 3rd party appraisal documenting exactly what they have before the jeweler touches it and they keep a copy of that report. They do nice work. What the client gets is a guarantee against breakage or loss both while it?s in the jewelers possession and for a full year from the date of the job. The store buys a Jewelers Mutual policy in the clients name that starts as soon as the client walks out the door. This costs them 1%. They pay 1% to the craftsman who does the setting. The other 1% goes to paying the sales people, the rent and ?profit?. Rush charges are extra and are available only on a case by case basis that will depend on the availability of the shop staff and the needs of the other clients. At the end of the year, the client get a statement and an invoice from Jewelers Mutual. If they want to continue the policy they are welcome to do so but if they don?t, they have received clear notice that their warranty has expired. This strikes me as a pretty reasonable approach.

Neil

[Jan]

Hi Jan,

From my experience, its best to keep the benchies :D in back so they don't go ballistic when they hear things like "Can you set my diamond in 15 minutes while I watch, for $30.00?"

:-)
Yeah well my setter is Brad. :)

[Brian Knox]

Yeah well my setter is Brad. :)


For everyone else's benefit, I knew that.

[Kelly]

I thought diamonds were some of the hardest substances in the world. Is the setting process that much of a strain on a diamond? Why would they break?

[JLPJ]

I thought diamonds were some of the hardest substances in the world. Is the setting process that much of a strain on a diamond? Why would they break?

Hard: yes.

Indestructable: NO.

[denverappraiser]

I thought diamonds were some of the hardest substances in the world. Is the setting process that much of a strain on a diamond? Why would they break?

Diamonds are hard but they are rather brittle. Consider a piece of wood vs. a piece of glass. Wood is quite soft. You can scratch it with your fingernail but the fiberous nature of it makes it a quite tough material. Breaking a 2x4 is tough. Glass on the other hand, resists scratching pretty well but can be quite delicate. Some gemstones, like jade, are quite tough while others, like opals are terribly fragile. Diamonds are in the middle.

Neil Beaty

[Gregory Diamond]

It is the difference between hardness and toughness.



GReg

[Sally414]

I took one that I didn't even buy on the internet (heirloom) to a local jeweler and he refused to set it. I finally found a woman in the next town over that did it and she carged me $60.


Sally